Q&A: Bob Nutting talks recent changes, Pirates' struggles, why he continues to own the team and more

Jason Mackey / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Pirates aren’t in a good place right now. The multitude of crazy off-field issues. Plenty of poor baseball played. A managerial change. Fan frustration that’s getting louder and louder.

A day after the team relieved Derek Shelton of his managerial duties, replacing him with Don Kelly, Pirates owner Bob Nutting met with the Post-Gazette. He was asked about decision, as well as the organization’s choice to retain general manager Ben Cherington and president Travis Williams.

Further questions were asked about the Pirates’ lousy offseason, if Nutting is embarrassed by the current state of the Pirates and why he continues to own the team.

Here’s a transcript of that conversation:

Jason Mackey: What was the organization’s reasoning for moving on from Derek Shelton but not Ben Cherington and Travis Williams?

Nutting: I really appreciate everything Derek did while he was here. He actually moved the organization forward. We had some good progress with him. I respect him. Like him as a person. Like him as a baseball man. And it was clear to everyone, it was clear to every fan, everyone watching our games, this first month of baseball has been incredibly frustrating, incredibly difficult, incredibly painful to watch. So it was completely clear to everyone that a change needed to be made. It’s a little early to make the change in a season. I felt it was critically important that we move now — certainly no later than now — because I believe we can still make a real impact in 2025. We’re not performing the way we expected to in spring training. That drove the decision to make the change now.

Mackey: But you kept Ben and Travis. Why?

Nutting: It also drove the decision to not make a change more broadly and holistically. I think if we make a broad, real restructure of the organization midseason, right now, we will not improve the team for 2025. I don’t think that makes us better. I’m not willing to give up on what we expected, which involves a significantly better performance than you’ve seen. I believe we can get to that. I don’t think that blowing everything up 38 games into the year is gonna help us do that. I think that would be distracting. I think that would get us off track. My focus has to be on getting this fixed and getting it fixed as fast as we can.

Mackey: You guys talked about progress after last year, but there were still needs, specifically on offense. We also saw payroll increase before and during that 2013-15 window. This year, that didn’t happen. Why did the organization not do more to add to the team?

Nutting: That’s 100% a fair criticism. And there are several pieces to that. I have and will continue to view the allocation to baseball budget as a larger lump sum. I have to trust Ben to allocate between the various pieces, whether it’s minor league, development or acquisition. I also believe we’re underperforming. Offensive production, we’re not getting what we expected or needed out of this group. That’s not burying any individual player. But we’re not getting the production that we need. We’re not getting the production that we expected. Two things can be true. We need to believe that we have a team that can perform at a higher level and do everything we can to get this group to perform at the highest level that we can. That’s everyone’s responsibility. We also need to continue to make this team better. We need to provide better players, more resources, more opportunity. Some of that has been injuries. Some of that has been looking at opportunities to bring other players in that didn’t quite work. Some of that’s continued, opportunities to grow and to build. We need to have faith in the organization and we need to continue to find ways to make it better.

Mackey: In the aftermath of the Bucco Bricks fiasco, you emailed people and used the word “embarrassed.” Are you embarrassed at the current state of the team given the many off-field issues?

Nutting: I really was embarrassed when I realized what had happened with the Bucco Bricks. It was a fiasco. It was self-inflicted. It was a mistake. It was handled badly. I believe that. I was as embarrassed and angry as I’ve been in a long time. At the same time, I think we’ve really tried hard to step back up. We’re gonna find ways to get replacement bricks to people, say we’re sorry and that we screwed it up. We’re gonna work hard to come up with a way to celebrate those memories and bricks and plaques at a place in the ballpark that’s more durable than the initial installation that had to be replaced three times already. We can do better than that. But the overall situation was embarrassing to everybody in the organization.

Mackey: But what about the other stuff, a fan falling out of the stands and a gameday employee whipping someone with a belt. There have been some big things that haven’t exactly painted the Pirates in a good light.

Nutting: I think each of those needs to be handled individually. They’re not related. It has been a perfect storm of issues coming up. But they are different issues. Kavan Markwood falling out of the stands, that was a once-in-a-generation issue. Really incredibly pleased that he is out of the hospital and into the rehab center, improving. We’re rooting for him as much as we possibly can. But in terms of the issues that just reach out and grab the heartstrings of everybody in the organization, that was a hard one, too. I don’t think it was anyone’s fault, but it was really hard.

Mackey: You’ve talked about small-market principles such as drafting and development. My own opinion is that you haven’t been good enough in those areas. How concerned are you about struggling with small-market stuff that you need to be good at?

Nutting: There’s no question those are things we have to do extraordinarily well. Those are things we need to be focused on. Those are things we have been and will continue to be focused on. It’s not the right time to do a draft-by-draft debrief. I know you’ve done some of that work. I believe it’s critically important that we get those things right. They will be important for us now and in the future. We have to be focused in the right areas and we need to expect performance out of those areas.

Mackey: If I’m a fan looking at the moves you made, I might interpret keeping Ben and Travis as some sort of endorsement. Is that fair? How should fans interpret the idea that Ben and Travis continue in their positions?

Nutting: It should be interpreted as what I said earlier. We made the move with Shelty because we have an urgent need to get this team better in 2025. I believe that move will make us better in 2025. I believe Donnie [Kelly] will bring a fresh voice in that will help this team get refocused. You’ve been in the clubhouse. We needed a change now to get that done. I think that will help us now. I don’t think the other changes that you or others have discussed make us better right now. Our focus has to be on getting better.

Mackey: What has been most frustrating for you this season?

Nutting: Given where we’ve been over the past month, that’s really hard to answer. Honestly, the on-field underperformance, the gap between our expectation and our actual performance has been truly frustrating because it felt like it was more controllable and long-term damaging to the franchise. That’s why that’s the one we took action on. I think we did recovery efforts on the Bucco Bricks fiasco and addressed it. Those feel more isolated to me. The issue that demanded change and the action we took this week was the gap between our expectation and our real performance on the field.

Mackey: You’ve talked about wanting the Pirates to be at the cutting edge of technology and innovation. How much work does the organization still have to do with that stuff?

Nutting: I don’t have an immediate answer to that. What I do know is, one, we have to be excellent in that space. Two, it will be an ever-moving goalpost because everybody’s pushing in that same direction. The minute we feel like we’re caught up, we’re behind again. That will be a continued evolution to be able to push. Are we where we need to be? Absolutely not. Are we where we need to be in two years? Absolutely not. We need to be accelerating. We need to be pushing. We need to try to do that faster and better. Much easier said than done.

Mackey: There’s obviously a lot of frustration with the Pirates right now. MLB franchises also sell for a lot of money. Why do you continue to own the team?

Nutting: I think there’s only one reason — because you’re right. It has been a challenging cycle. I truly believe that I am well positioned right now to lead the franchise. Two reasons. One, I really believe that the experience we have coming out of 2013-15, which is a long time ago, ... we have an opportunity to rebuild that type of team and connection to the city and perform on the field. I really believe we were moving down that pathway, which is why we’re making the adjustment right now. I’m not giving up on that at all. Equally as important, I believe, right now, given all of the challenges broadly in baseball, there’s been a lot of discussion of the economic disparity in the game. We’re never going to use that as an excuse. Never have. Never will. But I think I’m particularly well positioned right now to be able to help influence change in the economics of the game. Having been around for 20 years, having gone to owners’ meetings for longer than that, having a very strong relationship with the commissioner’s office, I believe that I’m uniquely well positioned to have a louder voice for Pittsburgh as we’re heading into the next [collective bargaining agreement]. I want to make sure that we don’t lose that position. I don’t think a new owner in Pittsburgh would have the same standing or ability to advocate for the kind of changes that we need.

Mackey: When you say change, do you mean a salary cap and floor and revamped revenue sharing?

Nutting: I’m not sure what it means. I think it’s clear that there’s a huge payroll disparity between teams. It is equally clear or more clear that there is a larger revenue disparity with those teams, which, in my opinion, creates the payroll disparity. One absolutely follows the other. I think it’s clear that the giant payroll disparity influences wins and losses. How do you reshape an economic system to move those and create real competitive balance? I think there are a lot of pathways to get there. I trust the commissioner’s office on that. But I’ve also worked with them. So I think that’s the biggest reason why I really should be here in Pittsburgh, driving forward. I think we have a unique opportunity to improve the game for Pittsburgh.